Ryan

Actually, I believe there is a joint services agreement here, wherein both the Township and the Board will share the carrying costs of the bodning for these projects.

That said, the demand for playing fields is ever growing while the supply of them is stagnant.

Just about the only thing the Township can do to create more playing time is to light the existing fields that aren't.

I also believe that the deterioration and life span of artificial turf has more to do with exposure to the ultra-violet rays of the sun than the feet that tread on them.

Lincoln Field has been lit since it was built and its estimated 10-year lifespan went to 12.

Gary, unless the plan has changed since council voted to approve these projects, you're mistaken about the payment mechanism. Both Mr. Gross and Mr. Sayers were explict at those meetings that the school district would NOT share any of the carrying costs for the bonding on these projects, on the grounds that the township's own rec programs use them more than the schools do. (I am not saying that this arrangement is better or worse for taxpayers; I'm just criticizing Patch for getting an important fact wrong.)

But yes, there will of course be shared use agreements.

Ryan,

You are right and I stand corrected. While shared services agreements routinely include provisions for sharing the costs, this particular one does not.

Nice try Ms. Cumming, but regardless of where the money is appropriated from...money to pay theses bills is not printed by the folks at 66 Main Street, at one point or another it comes out of the pockets of the taxpayers.

Katie - It is not left over borrowing: If it was why not refund it. No free lunch this get paid by us tax payers or by future tax payers paying off the bonds.

Yes and no, Kate. Yes, it's leftover bond proceeds, but at the same meeting where council voted to approve these projects, it also voted to approve NEW bonds to fix roads and other infrastructure. It could have used these leftover proceeds for the roads, and avoided new bonding. It chose not to. That at least has the potential to push people's taxes up (depending on other factors of course).

But no Adam, they can't simply refund capital bonds proceeds to taxpayers. They can only be used for capital bond projects. At least so it was said at the council meeting.

^ Sounds like a guy who has always the last one picked when they were choosing teams in grade school.

Adam Kraemer:

"I did just fine in school athletic even though I played on a less then fancey mud field?"

Just curious: did you receive a varsity letter in any sport when you were in high school?

That said, I'll repeat the lesson in economics/supply and demand posted previously:

The demand for playing fields is ever growing in West Orange and the supply is stagnant; the only way to keep up with demand is to maintain those we have and extend the playing hours on the fields that aren't lit by lighting them.

If you do not understand that athletics contribute to healthier children, not to mention increases interest in school and better academic performance, you really need to stop touting your previous experience in education...as you learned nothing from it.

Portmanteau:

In winter, any pothole fix is, at best, temporary; you need to excavate the hole, fill it with aggregrate and compact it, then cover it with hot macadam and roll it...none of which can be done properly in cold weather.

Portmanteau There have been potholes, cracks and gouges on the streets around here for years.and that includes summers, springs and falls.Nothing or very close to nothing has been done about them. A real mess. I like the "Pothole Hotline" initiative. Ridiculous. Hey, there's a big pothole on my street! I can see it, but the police can't see it { or feel it } nor can the fire department, or the D.P.W { street cleaning,leaf pickup, plowing, salting ? }, or any other town employee.Jack Sayers once said that he and Leonard Lepore drove around the entire town to assess the damage caused by a horrific storm. Many of the potholes and cracks and gouges were here then. I guess they missed them.

Who the hell cares who lettered in what sport and from what school? Why is that even a point in this discussion? We've all played on fields growing up. Being a letterman in a sport is not germane to the conversation.

Bart:

When once suggests mud and macadam are sufficient playing surfaces for sports, one must question their level of experience in playing any...no?

I would sugest few administrators, fewer costodians, less teacher. Also we out source busses but have 42 people employed in our transportation oftice. That is a good place to cut. Sport teams have some but not all. We can go with out certain athletic fields. Those are serious cuts that would not have much impact on learning. It does not take over 1,200 employee to provide aobut 7,000 students with a quality educaiton.

And I ask to you Mr. Englert, did you poll the members of the BOE and Town Council on whether they lettered in sports in school? Face it, it was a stupid point to bring up. And Mr. Kraemer, you are apparently delusional by saying "We can go with out certain atheltic fields" whatever the hell that means. The upgrade for Lincoln Field is vital for child safety. That is the long and short of it. If you want to totally neglect that, then that is on you.

Bart:

Again, in context, an inquiry about Mr. Kraemer's personal athletic accomplishments/experience was germane in the face of his insistence that we are going overboard renovating one field and lighting another...an you need to get a sense of humor.

Adam Kramer:

Doing just a modicum of research and asking a few questions, I've come up with some basic information about the fact we "out source busses but have 42 people employed in our transportation oftice."

Yes, the vast majority of the bussing provided our students is now contracted with the Educational Services Commission (Laidlaw was the prior contractor), a previous Board (circa 1995) having succumbed to pressure to privatize the function; the forecast savings never materialized but, a lack of control and service certainly did.

The Board's Transportation Office currently employs 4 full-time people and 38 part-time drivers, manning its fleet of 15-20 busses, most of which are of the smaller variety. These are used to transport the Township's special education students (in and out of district) who, due to their physical and cognitive limitations, require more care and concern than the typical, unclassified student.

Further, these drivers/busses are used to provide after hours transportation for students engaged in various and sundry programs, clubs and sports.

The costs of providing these services have been examined repeatedly over time with the net effect remaining that, not only is it cheaper to do it in house but, it also provides greater care and control over services provided to our most vulnerable students.

A humorous statement should be said in order to have a sense of humor or lack there of, and sad to say any career that you think you might have as a comedian is not looking too bright Mr. Englert.

The public schools have nothing to do with educating children, and everything to do with indoctrination and social engineering, and the jobs that go with them..That approach provides a very good living for a lot of people: Nutley; Joseph Cappello, who oversees the anti - bullying effort, said there has been a 400% increase in reported cases since the mandate began. In Nutley, 36 reported incidents in the elementary schools were investigated, and 6 were categorized as bullying. 4 reports at the Middle School were investigated,and 1 was categorized as bullying.. At NHS,,22 reports were investigated, and 9 were categorized as bullying. Mr. Cappello said,"We don't know yet how the numbers may be grouped,and if they will be grouped by socio - economic status.The District has had 11 training sessions so far, which have included everyone who spends significant time with the children. Assemblies will continue on all grade levels" There's the next growth industry; anti - bullying education and enforcement. ELEVEN training sessions SO FAR, ongoing assemblies,investigating and categorizing complaints, resolution of complaints,data compilation and interpretation using a large variety of factors {e.g.socio - economic status}, Individual school anti - bullying committees,District coordinators,consultants,experts, program presenters,State oversight,review,and revision,ad infinitum. I WISH that what I just wrote was hyperbole.A good idea run amuck, But why?? BECAUSE THERE'S MONEY IN IT.

Belleville Middle School, 7th grade; 42.5% tested below proficient in language arts literacy and 47.2% tested below proficient in math. 8th grade; 19.7% tested below proficient in language arts literacy, 31.4% were below proficient in math, and 29.4% tested below proficient in science. But ,the entire month of February was Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month . The students read non - fiction articles on the subject, and then wrote open - ended essays. Belleville Middle School provides 60 hours less instructional time to its students than the State average.Morristown 3rd graders received a 12 - session, 6 week course dramatic reading program . Classroom teachers didn't have the necessary skills to teach it, so the sessions were conducted by people from the Mayo Performing Art Center. One child's topic was "Why ants are everywhere." Another child's topic was "How the bee got its bumble" The arts center educators {not the classroom teachers} write scripts based on the "Pourquoi Tales",stories from cultures around the world that explain how things came to be in nature. It would appear that these stories must be largely or totally flights of fancy. Maybe some topics with a little more substance to t..........

The school where the third graders are being taught public speaking { by theater teaching artists } has 33.9% of the students testing below proficient in Language Arts Literacy, and it has 20.5% of the students testing below proficient in math. Both those scores are big improvements from the previous year.

One of the most pathetic parts of this saga is that we can't make the argument that if these projects had been submitted to the voters via Initiative and Referendum and been defeated, this entire argument over the costs and necessity of repairs and upgrades and new lighting wouldn't be occurring, because it would be occurring. Even if these projects were defeated at the ballot box, I have no doubt the School Board would have undertaken them regardless.

Yes, the only solution you have is to support the fiscally incompetents who are unable to control the spending and bloated budgets. We would expect nothing less from someone who spent years suckling off the public courtesy of his political support for the very folks who spend and tax at every opportunity.

The good people of WO are hurting as a result of the inability of McKeon, Parisi, And the rest of the fiscal incompetents occupying space on the council and WOBOE. Children in our schools are unable to pass basic skills yet the WOBOE wants to improve playing fields. The lunacy of this is simply ridiculous and there is no justification for such incompetence. They choose to allow our schools to fail and our taxes to rise in hopes these field will be named in their honor. Well there is no honor in the arrogance and incompetence of these people.

We field 57 teams at last count: Do we need all of them? I would have bigger classes in upper grades. Keep small class size in the lower grades. No light project for the fields. Reduce the transportation office. We have 62 people in the central office lets try for 50 that is a good start.

Adam Kraemer:

And yet you continue to paint with a broad brush and sans any specifics.

"We field 57 teams at last count: Do we need all of them?"

Well, let's see now...are the teams you speak of the Freshman, Junior Varsity and Varsity of 19 different sports? Care to share with the group?

My guess would be that if there is sufficient demand to mount such teams then, yes, they are more than desireable. Still, if it were up to you, again, would you care to share just which of them you would cut and just how much would be saved by doing so?

"I would have bigger classes in upper grades. Keep small class size in the lower grades." Really? And just what is the efficacy of this proposal? Is anything being saved or are we just transfering teachders from the high school to the grade schools.? Common sense suggest that the curriculum in the upper grades is increasingly more rigorous; is a higher student to teacher ration really an educational best practce at any level?

"We have 62 people in the central office lets try for 50 that is a good start." And yet again, would you care to share what each of those people do, how whatever the work they are doing would be handled if their position were eliminated and what savings would be realized? The arbitrary "let's cut a dozen people" doesn't appear to be a suggestion based on anything approaching sound analysis of cause and effect.

Once more, you've failed to make your case.

Adam Kraemer:

And yet again, you continue to offer broad brush strokes and absent any specifics whasoever...and relying solely on personal credentials not used professionally for how long?

Would you care to cite any current studies/best practices concerning class sizes at each and every grade level and/or course of study?

As to your suggestion concerning administrators or legal work...come up with hard numbers...who is doing what and why someone else has the time and expertise to do it without compromsing service/efficiency and make your case.

Law has become specialized and, yes, I can see the efficacy of sub-contracting certain legal matters/litigation to experts in a particular field. Still, someone with legal expertise must serve as the Board's case manager/advisor on these matters and, absent a critical, financial analysis that this to can be accomplished more cheaply (and still professionally and adequately) by a contracted attorney...as opposed to in-house...you're still just blowing smoke.

Outsourcing has a place but, it must be justified with sound analysis.

Many years ago,the State provided West Orange with a BOOK of very specific suggestions on how to save money.None of these recommendations was punitive or harsh in nature,unless West Orange school board members felt and still feel that other {often more affluent, higher achieving } districts are treating THEIR employees in a brutal fashion.We have seen many examples that demonstrate that that is exactly what WO school board members believe:When the school board significantly raised starting salaries then board member William Paterson Professor William Willis said "We were determined to get those starting salaries up there." Years ago the teacher's union agreed to an increase in the number of salary steps, from 9 to 11. A few years later,the school board rolled it back 9. City Hall eliminated longevity pay for new employees many years ago. Our school board clearly believes that that is demoralizing and counterproductive.Our school board believes that virtually every teacher in New Jersey is under compensated,and they work too many instructional hours.They know that too few people recognize how important it is to maintain high morale among teachers,.and how easy it is to lose great teachers to higher paying private sector jobs.The school board knows it's SOLELY. no - show parents, lazy students,and socio - economic factors that determine educational outcomes. DO NOT attach any blame whatsoever to teachers for low test scores..scores which really don't mean much anyway. . .

Here's 2 excellent examples of the West Orange School Board's determination to see that teachers and administrators are "properly compensated;2011 - 2012 school year; Dr. Donna Rando - NOT National Board Certified, NOT Highly Qualified, a total of 12 years experience, base pay ,$197,411. Mark Kenny has a masters degree, but it doesn't appear to be in Business Administration. His profile says "Standard Certificate in elementary/secondary education. He is NOT National Board Certified, he is NOT Highly Qualified, and he has a total of 11 years experience, and all of those 11 years may not have been spent as a Business Administrato. Mr. Kenney's base pay;$193,966. You know the expression: "We pay a lot, but that enables us to attract the best talent." That strategy is is also strictly applied when teams compete against one another to sign the best free agents in professional football, basketball, baseball, etc. And just like professional sports, West Orange has had a lot of free agent flops.

Here is the article from the December 6 town council meeting.
http://thealternativepress.com/towns/west-orange/articles/west-orange-town-council-meeting-touches-on-impor

Administrator*

Adam Former West Orange Head Football Coach John Jacob wrote a letter about the coach - selection process. In the letter, he said one of the new coaches will be James CASALINO. Mr. Casalino is Director of Business in Irvington. His base pay is listed as $145,600. He's assigned to the Florence Avenue School. District wide, 66.1% of third grade students are below proficient in language arts literacy.and 49.6% tested below proficient in math. In the fourth grade 65.4% tested below proficient in l.a.l., 42.2% tested below proficient in math, and 23.5% tested below proficient in science. In the fifth grade,62.1% of the students tested below proficient in l.a.l.and 38.2% tested below proficient in math. FOUR of those scores were improvements from the year before. Florence Avenue School provides its students with about 25 hours less yearly instructional time than the State average. Several days ago, a student from Newark East Side High School said to Governor Chrisitie "We haven't seen nothing.We don't even have books in my classroom." The Newark teachers just got raises equal to about 4 times the cost of living, AND THEY WEREN'T HAPPY ABOUT IT. Their Union President Joseph Del Grosso asked for ratification of the contract, but he told them," It's not everything I wanted for you, and it's not everything you deserve....." The public schools have nothing to do with educating young people. GIVE YOUR FRIENDS MONEY, AND TO HELL WITH THE PUBLIC.